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the VOID Profile
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Registered: 03-2006
Location: European Union
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Personal hygiene systems


I know I might be raising dust with this topic, but I think it is necessary.

When I looked through the deckplan gallery for the first time, a few years ago, the first thing I thought was something like "Oh! Finally ships with toilets and showers!"

I was very happy about that, because most people completely forget about the most basic needs human beeings have. Sleep, eat, get rid of what you've eaten, stay clean. Okay, there are things like sex and company, but those are no daily requirements.

The thing is, I am not so sure about the sanitation systems of our ships anymore. In fact I think that they are not only very anachronistiv, but they are also not conform with what I know about the Star Wars Universe. Sinks with water and water showers are mentioned in sources that portray planetary settings. Not spaceships. I also think that water will be extremeley rare even on coreworlds like Corouscant. With so many people living there it just has to be and everybody who is not filthy rich would be interested in saving and preserving water.

Our showers in the deckplans are water showers. They have shower heads, drains, taps... They are the exact opposite from what I'd expect aboard a starship.

First of all, I would want to have as little water in my ship as possible. Not drinking water, but water for things like personal hygiene. In fact I'd try to eliminate water as far as possible. It is a consumable, it takes up space and it is dangerous for all electrical systems. The main reason however is, that it is not necessary in huge quantities. Sources from the Star Wars Universe tell us that in places where water is scarce, sonic showers are used, or at least combined sonic-water-showers.

Those showers use hypersonics to clean you and if you want you can combine it with a water-mist showering system. Showers like this get you clean with very little water, they massage you and they don't need much space. They are round in most cases, because it is more effective with the sonic system this way.

All in all they are better on a starship and they don't look like they are from the 70's. The hygiene systems in our current deckplans however do. They don't look science-fiction and they don't look much like star wars. Water-flush toilets? Not really... Everybody would use a frictionless material with a sanitation liquid dispenser. More compact, more secure and it offers better hygiene.

After I discussed the topic with Lucas I made some prototypes for new and improved hygiene systems (see picture). They take up much less space than the traditional systems in most cases and they look much more modern and futuristiv. I also adjusted the size of the toilet, because the toilets in most deckplans are too big. I used my own bathroom as reference, since it is extremely small, but it works fine. If it works for me on earth today, then it will work on any spaceship just as well.

The only real point why they are like they are that I could briefly think of was symbolic stylisation. But that can't stand, because if those toilets and showers are just symbolic stylisation, everything in our deckplans would be and we would loose much credibility.

Image

Therefore I want to encourage discussion on this topic and if everone agrees, I suggest that we modernize all existing ships with the new systems. Every kitbasher can do it, so it won't be a ton of work put on Franks shoulders.

---
"The sand people are easily startled, but they will soon be back, and in greater numbers." — Obi-Wan Kenobi


4/10/2006, 5:34 am Link to this post Send PM to the VOID
 
Quint89 Profile
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Registered: 11-2005
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Re: Personal hygiene systems


I agree. I got thinking about this from a size point of view for the Crow and comparing sizes with real airplane toilets...tiny compared to even the sleuth.

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It was not certain what significance the ceremony held... but the formality was no less sacred for it being unintelligible.
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geekboy1701 Profile
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Re: Personal hygiene systems


I guess I'll chime in here real quick.

First, water is not that dangerous to electronics. If it is 100% pure water that has been de-ionized, then there is no danger what so ever (except maybe corrosive dangers--but you get that from oxygen as well) due to the fact that 100% de-ionized water is an INSULATOR. It does not carry a current.

Second, five gallons of water goes a very long way. A ten minute shower uses roughly 3 gallons of water, an average toilet only 2 per flush and an adult human can sustain himself on as little as a liter every two days. I doubt that even Chewie showered EVERY single day, so there's 3 gallons saved. And with most ships having only one head (and two crew), using it maybe two times a day each, that's only 8 gallons.

Third, I think you maybe forgetting water reclaimation devices. Water in and of itself does not degrade. Thereby, if you reclaim three gallons of water from the shower, you can reclaim three gallons. If ones urine is 98% water then you reclaim most of that (theoretically, urine can be re-ingested upto 7 times before it becomes toxic--I'm taking the experimentors word on that one...). Not to mention that a vaporator connected to the air conditioning system could extract trace ammounts from the air.

I believe you guys are assuming that it has to be a continuing supply, different water for each and every use. This is just not the case. Think on this, if a starship uses 'hydrox' fuel then the ship carries the components needed to make its own water (hydrogen and oxygen). Water cannot be compressed but Hydrogen and Oxygen can be compressed into solids. If the ship 'combines' its own water in this manner, how much space would be saved versus carrying the equivalent ammount of water?

I would however, combine the toilet and sink...kinda like those in the prison system with the sink above the tank of the toilet. It saves on room and vital weight limitation issues. I hope this helps with the discussion.

---
I'm not a geek, I'm THE geek, but that's MISTER geek to you...
4/10/2006, 9:04 am Link to this post Send Email to geekboy1701   Send PM to geekboy1701
 
Quint89 Profile
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Re: Personal hygiene systems


My issue was more of the size of the components... okay compared to bathrooms on a house but oversized compared to bathrooms in planes/boats. So some more compact designs would be a good idea (can be installed as an economy option).

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It was not certain what significance the ceremony held... but the formality was no less sacred for it being unintelligible.
4/10/2006, 9:22 am Link to this post Send Email to Quint89   Send PM to Quint89
 
the VOID Profile
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Re: Personal hygiene systems


And it is much less water as a hazard, but more the anachronism of the look of those systems.

By the way: Pure water is a nice theory, but honestly I don't believe it to stay pure and unconducting, when it spills uncontrolled through the ship. Who knows what kinds of dirt can be found in the service spaces...

---
"The sand people are easily startled, but they will soon be back, and in greater numbers." — Obi-Wan Kenobi


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kenposan Profile
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Re: Personal hygiene systems


Void is spending too much time thinking about voiding. emoticon emoticon emoticon

Nice though, I have always wondered we weren't using sonic hygiene systems. But now I have to retro fit all my ships you %$&$%#%

---
Thus far, you have been adrift in the safe harbor of my patience.
4/10/2006, 10:36 am Link to this post Send Email to kenposan   Send PM to kenposan
 
the VOID Profile
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Re: Personal hygiene systems


It saves space. emoticon

Especially the toilet units, since they don't need swingdoors and they can be mounted much better in small ships with little availlable space.

Sorry. emoticon

---
"The sand people are easily startled, but they will soon be back, and in greater numbers." — Obi-Wan Kenobi


4/10/2006, 11:15 am Link to this post Send PM to the VOID
 
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Re: Personal hygiene systems


Space Cowboys:
  'What's this?'
  'The ACM.'
  'ACM?'
  '@$$hole Centering Module...'

---
I'm not a geek, I'm THE geek, but that's MISTER geek to you...
4/10/2006, 8:02 pm Link to this post Send Email to geekboy1701   Send PM to geekboy1701
 
the VOID Profile
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Re: Personal hygiene systems


More opinions, please.

---
"The sand people are easily startled, but they will soon be back, and in greater numbers." — Obi-Wan Kenobi


4/13/2006, 9:02 am Link to this post Send PM to the VOID
 
FVBonura Profile
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posticon My 2 cents on STAR WARS bathrooms


My opinion is that we should keep STAR WARS as tangible and real as possible. Lets try to make it more like the real world so fans can readily see something and identify it. Lets not try to over saturate STAR WARS with too much science fiction. To quote Gary Kurtz, “George wanted the STAR WARS universe to looked lived in.” Sometimes a bathroom just needs to be a bathroom. In a culture with artificial gravity and advanced reclamation technology, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever NOT to have a bathroom that works as it does planetside.

As for the smaller commodes, I say very bad idea. Your designs Void are very, lets just say, to use a "STAR TREK - Enterprise" term, "Specist". We are not running a “Humans Only Club”, and I am sure companies like SoroSuub do not design for humans only but for a broader market of customers. Those tiny fixtures are poorly designed for larger alien races. Races like the Houk, Togorians, Esoomians, or any race with a rather large behind. A fully grown male Tunroth would need two of those tiny commodes to balance himself for his morning visit to the bathroom. Could a Houk or a Whiphid fit at least one much less two of its hands in that “sonic hand cleaner” in that tiny bathroom.

The main reasons my commodes and water closets are slightly larger than human receptacles, is because once you lift the lid, you will find several spacers for the many different sizes of buttocks that will use the apliance. Secondly, you need to provide enough room for the larger races to enter rotate and sit down. You also will need a shower big enough to fit them, and allow room for the dirt to fall off regardless if its sonic or by water and soap.


Lastly, I also don’t like sonic showers at all because they vibrate off dirt, but do little to address odor control. This means you will still need deodorant soaps and solvents to deal with the worst of grime and filth on the body. Grime and filth common to those who live on, work in, and repair space transports.

Sonic showers are great when they are on the 100th story of Prince Xixor’s palace and we are reading about the naked Princess Leia showering in one of Xixor’s guest suites. However in the same book we read that Xixor bathes in a swiming pool with fragrant oils and soaps. On good days Xixor is with Guri (Stark Naked!) in the tub so she can scrub his back or anything else he needs scrubbed. Sonic shower? Forget it. Guri can you pass the soap? emoticon

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Frank V Bonura - SWDA Founder - http://deckplans.00sf.com “For thou hast girded me with strength unto the battle: thou hast subdued under me those that rose up against me. ” - Psalm 18:39
4/14/2006, 8:20 pm Link to this post Send Email to FVBonura   Send PM to FVBonura
 


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STAR WARS™ © ® and everything intellectually, written, or graphically related to it, is wholly the property of Lucasfilm Ltd. and its creator, George Lucas. STAR WARS The Roleplaying Game is currently licensed to Wizards of the Coast, and was formerly under the care of WEST END GAMES. Used in accordance with fair use of copyright material under U.S. Title Code 17, section 107.
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